Review: A House For Everyone, interview with author, Jo Hirst

There are too few books which speak with authenticity about the experience of transgender or gender diverse children.

The majority of books about gender diverse children (10,000 dresses, My Princess Boy, The Boy in The Dress) focus on gender expression. These stories should be commended for celebrating children who break free of strict gender boundaries, but their message, that some boys, some potentially trans kids, can wear ‘girls clothes’ – always dresses, can be seen as subtly reinforcing the very stereotypes they aim to break – clothes after all, do not have a gender. These books rarely focus on gender identity, ie. who that child is, instead focusing on what they wear, or their play and friendship preferences.

Many of these stories follow a well worn trope of a child who is initially picked on for being different, is upset by this, and then following an event or intervention, is accepted by others. This simple message of celebrating difference might be helpful for children not experiencing these issues to understand the experience of those who are, but has the potential to cause shame and upset in those children who are already experiencing stigma due to their gender non conformity.

While there have been a handful of attempts to tackle gender identity in children in an accessible way, these frequently rely upon the same gender stereotypes of the gender expression books above. It is difficult, even for adults to get to grips with gender identity, how then can this be successfully handled for a child while avoiding pitfalls of stereotyping toy choices or the pink = girl, blue = boy gender binary.

Jo Hirst’s book, A House for Everyone, is a revelation. The picture book tells the story of a group of friends who are gender diverse. Together, they build a tree house and each child is introduced to the reader in turn. It is a simple and short book with delightful art. There is a strong and fast girl who has short hair and never wears dresses, a trans boy, a non binary child, a boy who loves dresses, and a boy with long hair who likes art, flowers and sport.

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Jo, is both a parent of a transgender child, and a feminist critical of gender stereotypes. She is one of the voices leading the call for school uniform reform in Australia, and has spoken out about gender stereotypes.

I spoke to Jo about her book and what her hopes are for trans children:

@DadTrans: Your story includes both a trans boy and a non binary child, what motivated you to include these characters?

Jo:  I wanted a story that would include transgender children and children who’s gender expression might differ from the social ‘norm’. It was important to me to show a clear difference between gender identity and gender expression. And at the same time let all children know that wherever you fit on the gender spectrum, no one is tied down to any stereotypes. Toys, clothes haircuts- these things don’t have a gender, it’s about what makes you feel comfortable.  I chose a trans boy because of my son but also because they are underrepresented in children’s literature and in the media space in general.(Compared to trans girls) I’m not sure why that is as they are certainly out there in large numbers.

It was also very important to include a non binary child. While we are starting to see more young adult books with non binary characters, there are almost no books for young children, apart from “Are you a Boy or a Girl” [By Fox and Owl]. When the Trans Pathways research was done in Australia last year, 46.8% of the young people surveyed identified as non binary. I meet a lot of young non binary people here in Australia. If your child has not met a trans or non binary person yet, it won’t be long! It’s a good idea to get the conversation started

@DadTrans: We’ve found a lack of books which both cater to trans & gender diverse children and also don’t fall back on gender stereotypes. How did you address this issue in A House for Everyone?

Jo: I was very aware of not only not wanting to fall back on gender stereotypes but also to make the story a very positive one. The plan was to just have the story without any explanation of Gender initially. But after testing the first version on groups of parents and teachers, I found that the pronouns alone were not enough to explain who the children were, and what their gender identity was. I added some ‘notes for grown ups’ including terms, as well as a lesson plan, links to resources and further reading.

@DadTrans: A House for Everyone is your second book focusing on gender identity in children. How does your first book, The Gender Fairy, differ? What lessons did you learn along the way?

Jo: The Gender Fairy was about two binary transgender children making a social transition. The main purpose of that book was to let transgender children know they are normal and they are not alone, that there are other children like them. While The Gender Fairy doesn’t have the same focus on gender stereotyping, there is an opportunity to talk about how society stereotypes boys and girls especially at the beginning of the book. At the same time, many young transgender children do gravitate towards stereotypical boy and girl toys and clothes, just the same way cisgender children do. I do love that the gender fairy themselves are non-binary, and my favourite line is the last one when the children ask the fairy whether they are a girl or a boy, and the fairy answers “does it matter?”

@DadTrans: What other books would you recommend for trans or gender diverse children and their parents?

Jo: The Rainbow Owl website has a fantastic list of books and resources which they keep up to date with latest releases. (That’s recommended for parents by the Australian Psychological Society and reviews books for all ages from all over the world)

@DadTrans: What do you see as the biggest challenges facing transgender children and young people?

Jo: I would quote the trans Pathways research which found without family, school and community support 48% of trans youth had attempted suicide. It’s an uphill battle to get support in the face of backlash from transphobic conservatives and media. At a time when (in Australia at least) our doctors and psychologists are telling us to support our kids they are making it really hard. The hardest part is when kids are weaponised is political debates.

@DadTrans: You have spoken before about the lack of gender stereotyping in your own childhood. How much do you think that has influenced your books?

Jo: Parental roles, clothing and toys were not overly gendered in my own early childhood. My mother was a builder when I was growing up in the 1970’s with her own “Handywoman Service” and my dad was an English and History teacher who was an equal hands on parent which was unusual for that generation. My mother has what some people would describe as a masculine gender expression and has always identified as cisgender. I have always been able to see the distinction between gender identity and gender expression. The character ‘Ivy’ in A House for Everyone is very like my mum. She likes to have her hair cut very short, never wears dresses, was the fastest runner at school and was always the leader.

@DadTrans: As the mother of a trans child, what are your hopes for your child and the current generation of trans & gender diverse children?

Jo: I’ll be really happy when one day we don’t need books like this because everyone understands gender diversity.

I would like a world for my child and all children where being trans or gender diverse does not put you in danger. Where being trans and gender diverse does not mean you have less human rights than your cisgender siblings. Where all children have equal access to safe schooling, healthcare and supportive families and good friends. Pretty much what every parent wants for their child.

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Final thoughts:

Review from @Fiercemum: A House for Everyone is exactly the book I’d been looking for, a book that includes and recognises and has space for, children who are transgender as well as those who are gender non-conforming. I’ve read it with a wide variety of children – and I see how much representation of diversity matters.

The book includes a trans boy and a non-binary child, two categories that are under-represented in books aimed at primary school age. One of the biggest responses I’ve had whilst reading the book, was from a gender non-conforming 5 year old cis boy, who was incredibly moved and validated by the book’s depiction and acceptance of gender non-conforming boys, boys with long hair, or who like sparkly dresses. The strong and fast girl Ivy, the group’s leader, is a character who would have spoken to me as a child, as a dress-hating cis ‘tom boy’, and is a character who resonates strongly with my trans daughter, who similarly loves climbing trees and having adventures.

In a world where many books about trans girls depict ultra femininity, in a world where many books about trans kids conflate and blur the differences between trans identity and gender non-conformity, A House for Everyone is a welcome breath of fresh air.

I recommend it for parents and schools to read with trans kids, for gender non-conforming kids, for kids who are diverse or different to their peers, for kids who love adventure, for kids who need to know that this world is diverse, that being different is ok, that there really is a space for everyone.

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Other children’s books on gender we’ve enjoyed:

You may also want to check out the following books we’ve liked (in a rough order of reading age):

Red, A Crayon Story

‘Pink is a Girl Color’ and other silly things people say

Are you a boy or a girl?

Vincent the Vixen

George

Lily and Dunkin

 

Transgender trend ‘School resource pack’ – A teacher’s perspective

Transgender trend ‘School resource pack’ – A teacher’s perspective – 

The writer has more than 12 years experience in teaching, including  head of year in secondary and within a SEND setting.

 

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As a teacher my first question is who has written this?

Who are the authors? 

Usually on resources you see a whole load of signatories, accreditation and endorsing organisations. Here there’s nothing.

How am I meant to use it?

It is not a resource pack (it contains no specific resources) and I can see no practical application for it.

Looking at the linked website, ‘about us section’, the organisation claims to be founded by a group of parents who have created a website and twitter account but have no other stated organisation purpose or role which gives them legitimacy.

The website ‘founder’s’ primary previous job experience is being an ‘accredited communication skills trainer’ (read bullshitter?).

She mentions she founded a school and worked in various roles in the classroom and playground. This implies she is unqualified (if she was a trained teacher or head, or worked as governor, she would surely have mentioned that).

Reading more of her blurb it quickly links to a website full of naff stock photos and seems to be motivated to sell a book, which seems to be self-published.

Doing a cursory nose around the website’s FAQ section, the first FAQ they have chosen to address is very telling:

  • Aren’t you just transphobic?
  • No, we believe that transgender people deserve the same civil and human rights as all of us and should not face discrimination. As the term ‘phobic’ literally means ‘irrational fear’ we want to make it very clear that we are not afraid of, or prejudiced against, transgender people in any way.

Given the amount of prejudice content they are pedalling this answer is an immediate red flag.

It’s a bit like a organisation’s website (which is full of material that advocates racism) including a headline FAQ of : “Aren’t you racist?” Happily responding with – ‘No I’m not racist because racism actually means this’.

On to the publication in question

Despite being formatted like an official guidance document, the prejudice and agenda which came through from a brief look of the website are easy to spot.

The document starts by stating that it was developed in partnership with teachers and child welfare staff, again this is tellingly unspecific.

In these days of academies and free schools employing staff without specialised training to teach, the term ‘teacher’ has lost some of its protected status, and anybody who works in a school during the day from cleaners to ICT technicians has to attend child protection training about prioritising welfare. So you can see how they might have stretched some meagre credentials. Critically, it doesn’t state ‘welfare professional’ or name any specific roles such as ‘Head of Year’ or ‘Safeguarding Lead’

The introduction sets out its goal to “Manage the (se) issues” of official transgender schools guidelines.

The following content on Page 5 titled “why is it needed” is clearly anti-transgender rights and is scaremongering.

It is full of sensationalist soundbites equating gender non-conformity with sexual orientation, highlighting increases in referrals to gender clinics, and even  implying that the internet is not to be trusted as it causes something they name ‘rapid onset gender dysphoria’ (thank goodness for Net Neutrality eh).

I almost give up at this point, I am not going to be reading their list of fallacies or ‘case studies’.

Both the title and details of the section ‘Transgender, gay, lesbian, ASD or troubled teenager?’ is very offensive not least to children who have suffered abuse or who have ASD.

As schools we have been tasked by the DfE to promote fundamental British Values of:

  • The rule of law.
  • Individual liberty.
  • Mutual respect for and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs.

I don’t see how this document can fit within these modern values.

I see no way that schools would touch this publication with a barge-pole.

Schools are time and money poor, therefore no one will have the time to read it, or the money to print it.

The priority of school leaders is the safety of young people and ensuring that they make progress.

For teachers this means reporting concerns on to the correct person and spending hours preparing lessons, marking and reporting data.

This document includes bad, unsupported, advice coming from a website with a clear agenda of prejudice against the children it claims to support. Reading it is a waste of teacher’s time.

 

 

If you are interested on how the Transgendertrend document fits within a long history of  anti LGBT hate campaigns you should check out this brilliant review on The Queerness   By Teacher Annette Pryce and Psychotherapist Karen Pollock:

https://thequeerness.com/2018/02/18/transgender-trend-follow-in-the-footsteps-of-other-anti-lgbtq-organisations/

 

Transgender children need Stonewall’s support: SOME CHILDREN ARE TRANS. GET OVER IT!

Feedback on Stonewall ‘A Vision for Change’ – Parent’s perspective.

We warmly welcome Stonewall’s commitment to transgender advocacy. This consultation is a very timely opportunity to build a strong coalition to fight for the rights of transgender people. There is much good in the document.  Alongside appointment of a Trans Advisory Group in 2015, and recent recruitment of a Head of Trans Equality, it demonstrates Stonewall’s new commitment to Transgender equality adding the missing T to their excellent work on LGB.

Stonewall has had a lot of trust to recoup with the Trans community. It is right that this document was not written by Stonewall itself but by the arms length Trans Advisory Group. Written by Trans people for Trans people the Vision statement provides a foundation and mandate for action.

There does however appear to be a missing voice – that of transgender children and their parents.  As non trans people, parents of transgender children (unless trans themselves) are unable to attend the five planned consultation meetings. The two-week window to feed back comments in writing or by phone, is also short, and those with busy lives (and I think this would include all parents of trans children), may find it difficult to input.

Following publication of the Vision on Monday evening, we spoke to other parents with transgender children, mainly those supported by Mermaids, which helped to shape our thoughts on the document. We shared these with other parents and then submitted detailed comments (below) to Stonewall. We also sent a copy to Susie Green CEO of Mermaids.

Please note, this feedback is intended to complement rather than detract from the much needed work outlined in the Vision. We’ve focused upon the references to trans-children (or their absence where we think they need inclusion) . While critical, the comments come from a good place. We are simply parents who want to do the best for their children.

We’re now asking  for advocates from the Trans community to read this feedback, and take forward these comments, in person if possible, to the consultation meetings we are unable, as parents, to attend. 

Transgender children are one of the most vulnerable groups of transgender people. Transgender children cannot themselves lead or achieve the changes that they need. Supportive parents of transgender children are in a unique position to raise the voices of our children, and need to be explicitly included in this dialogue.

Supportive parents of transgender children are some of the most well-informed, passionate and motivated allies for transgender people, but we are often unable to speak publically (to protect our children). We need allies like Stonewall. Working in partnership we will achieve far more than working in isolation.

We hope this can be the start of a dialogue and partnership between parents of transgender children and Stonewall.

Key Recommendations

  • Explicitly acknowledge the existence of transgender children in this document and explicitly acknowledge your support for transgender children. (Comment 1, C4, C8, C9, C21, C32).
  • Work with parents of transgender children to improve critical sections of this document. (C2, C14, C24, C25).
  • Work in partnership with parents of transgender children, and invite both a parent of a transgender teenager, and a parent of a transgender child to join the steering team, with an explicit remit to represent the concerns and needs of transgender children. (C15, C22, C30, C33)
  • Acknowledge the significant challenges (prejudice, hate, discrimination) faced by transgender children. (C5, C10, C11, C12, C13, C26).
  • Propose concrete ways in which Stonewall will help transgender children. (C3, C6, C7, C20, C23, C27, C28, C30, C31),
  • Avoid repeating and reinforcing prejudicial and damaging attitudes towards transgender children in this document. (C16, C17, C18, C19, C29
  • Embrace this opportunity to build a coalition with a group of very motivated trans allies (supportive parents of transgender children).

Detailed Comments

Comment 1 (C1):P. 4. Shared Mission: The mission statement does not seem to include trans children, one of the most vulnerable trans groups. Add ‘schools’ to ensure it is clear that trans children are important trans people.

C2: p.5 The document is ‘driven by trans people and achieved by trans people’. My daughter is a vulnerable and important trans person. She cannot drive the changes that she needs. As her parent I need to be her advocate. Trans-children are a group who are uniquely unable to drive and achieve the changes they need. Allies for trans-children (of whom parents and organisations like Mermaids are an important component) need to be part of this dialogue and this agenda, otherwise the important needs of trans-children will be overlooked (as seems to have been the case in this document). Do you have a member of the steering group on the panel as an advocate for trans-children? Of course all trans adults were once trans children, but the experiences and problems of trans-children (particularly those who are early transitioners and openly trans) may be quite different to the experiences and problems that adults had in a different time when they were children.

C3: Amplifying voices. Important to add here that Stonewall will raise the voices of those who can’t speak openly. This is particularly relevant for children and their parents, who are very isolated and can’t speak openly as we need to protect our children.

C4: p. 6 Transforming institutions. Says improving services and workplaces. Suggests people become trans at age 18. Absolutely needs to include schools as the institution where our trans-children spend most of their time. Change to “Improving services, schools and workplaces’. Avoiding mentioning schools (and therefore children) here perpetuates a culture of denial of the existence of trans-children. Bullying at school (including by teachers and other parents) can be horrific. A transgender child was recently shot at school (in the UK) simply for being trans after months of sustained bullying. Schools cannot be omitted here.

C5: p. 12 Representation in media. Media coverage of trans-children is horrific. Yet this is not even mentioned. Harmful media messages about trans-children not existing causes direct damage to trans-children.

C6: Network of allies – National campaign to educate the general population doesn’t mention the need to educate the general population about trans-children, around which there are so many misconceptions and so much fear.

C7: p.12 Challenge transphobia – research needs to encompass the experiences of trans-children.

C8: Language – the document has not once used the term ‘trans-children’. This is part of a wider societal culture of fear and prejudice where the existence of trans-children is denied. If even a stonewall trans advocacy document cannot be brave enough and say ‘yes there are trans children’ then what hope have we got. Using the term ‘young people’ and avoiding the term trans children very much suggests that being trans is a choice that can be made by competent (Gillick competent) teenagers/young adults. My child is certainly a child. They have not chosen to be trans it is who they are. Avoiding the term trans-children is insipid and perpetuates a culture of denial of trans-children’s existence.

C9: p. 15 Institutions. In the heading the word school is again omitted (it definitely needs adding). In the subtext the term ‘in school’ finally appears. First implicit acknowledgement that trans-children exist in the document?

C10: p.16 Criminal justice. No mention of social services investigating parents who support their child in their gender identity. No mention of justice system discriminating against parents who support their child in their gender identity. Both critical issues for transgender children and supportive families (especially in child custody disputes). Nor indeed is there any mention here of the legal rights of transgender children themselves.

C11: p. 17 Faith schools worth a mention here as a particular area for discrimination.

C12: p. 17 There are specific challenges for trans-children in the healthcare system that are not acknowledged here.

C13: P, 17 Sport. Some sporting bodies have trans policies that require information on hormone levels in order to compete, some require “evidence of SRS” or a formal assessment by a board. This clearly is unreasonable for trans-children and creates situations were trans children are prevented from accessing sport either through explicit exclusion or implicitly made unwelcome.

C14: p.18 Young people and education. This section is extremely weak. By far the weakest section of the whole report. I can make some comments but this really needs a significant overhaul and input from a wider group of trans child advocates.

C15: The weakness of this section makes me wonder how well the current working group is representing the experience and needs of trans-children. Do you have any members of the working group nominated specifically to represent the interests of trans-children. A parent of a trans-child (where the parent may or may not be trans themselves) would be an important addition to a working group otherwise the voices of trans-children will be lost (as I fear they have been in this current draft).

C16: Why is this section talking predominantly about gender stereotypes, and about gender expression, and gender roles and colours/toys/clothes. This is extremely worrying.

C17: Of course gender stereotypes are unhelpful – this is not an issue that is specific to trans-children, nor specific to trans-people – it is a broad issue affecting everyone. There is no reason to have a section on gender stereotypes in a section on trans-children. My trans-daughter thought she couldn’t be a pirate captain as she is a girl – so yes gender stereotypes are a problem for everyone, including for trans-children, but this is not the issue to be focused upon in a section on how Stonewall can best support trans-children.

C18: Likewise, there is no reason to talk about gender expression or toys, or clothes,0 or gender roles, or fitting with gender stereotypes in this section. This plays into a deeply harmful cultural narrative that assumes ‘transgender children’ are not really transgender but just like wearing different clothes or toys or colours or don’t fit with traditional stereotypes and are being pushed (by transgender activists) into being transgender when they are really just non-conforming. This is all irrelevant for transgender children like mine who don’t give a damn what toys or clothes they have as long as they are recognised as a girl. For trans-children like mine who knew they were trans way before they had any understanding of gender stereotypes.

C19: The section here on ‘people exploring their gender identity and how they fit with traditional gender stereotypes’ is deeply patronising and unhelpful. Would you put this stuff in the adult transgender section? I don’t think so. Talking about gender non-conforming or questioning children who reconcile their questions’ is deeply unhelpful and plays into a cultural narrative that discredits children knowing who they are, and talks about it being a ‘phase’. Gender non-conforming children who reconcile their questions are not trans-children – they do not need emphasis here. I like the stonewall poster ‘some people are trans/gay – get over it’. I’d like more bravery here ‘some children are trans – get over it’. There seems here to be fear to acknowledge the existence of trans-children. This hesitancy wouldn’t be reasonable in the adults section of this document, and shouldn’t be present here. There are trans-children in this world, and they face serious issues (hate, discrimination, prejudice).

C20: This section needs to discuss the serious issues that trans-children face, and talk about how Stonewall is going to help this extremely vulnerable group.

C21: Furthermore, the term ‘young people’ is too vague. As mentioned above, the term ‘transgender children (no matter what their age)’ would be better. Or perhaps ‘transgender children and transgender teenagers’. Otherwise it seems like this document is denying the existence of transgender children (and if you don’t acknowledge they even exist, how are you possibly going to help them?).

C22: The section on LGBT mentions the hostility or confusion towards the trans community within the LGB community. As a parent of a young trans child I’m aware that a minority of trans adults are themselves sometimes ill-informed or and unsupportive to the needs of trans-children. Some trans adults are sceptical of the need to support and help trans-children. There cannot be an automatic assumption that trans adults will always understand or advocate for trans children, and I think it is worth acknowledging.

C23: p.19 The key recommendation on how stonewall is going to help my transgender child is to avoid gender stereotypes. This belittles the genuine challenges my transgender child faces, and is not in any way a good enough recommendation given the mountain of challenges my child will face before they reach adulthood.

C24: This section needs starting again.

Service Providers

C25: p.22 This section does not acknowledge the particular challenges in the Gender Identity service for children. There are many specific issues that could be acknowledged and addressed if this was developed in consultation with those who support transgender children. This needs to consider how the system works for children of all ages, not just for those old enough to access medical interventions. Fostered trans children and young people face particular challenges and aren’t mentioned in the document.

C26: Particularly this section does not consider the issues around the gatekeeper role that the children’s GIDS service plays to approve or deny access to medical interventions. Practices that are (hopefully) considered unacceptable in adult services are standard in children’s services, with much questioning of why the child has chosen that they would prefer to be a girl, intrusive questioning about genitals, parents being blamed for ‘causing’ their child to be transgender, children being told they are not dressing or acting sufficiently in their affirming gender role to be properly transgender, or children being told they are not sufficiently upset with parts of their anatomy to be properly transgender. Panels of medical professionals make decisions for which there is no appeal. This is in addition to timescales and protocols that are arbitrary and damaging. In addition, in a monopolised and unaccountable system, parents of transgender children are afraid to complain for fear it will damage their child’s support. There needs to be a system put in place for complaints from parents about the children’s GID service to be effectively dealt with.

C27: Also the final wording ‘New models of care, which don’t require psychiatric diagnosis as their foundation, should be explored’ brings to mind the wording of the government response to the Women’s and Equalities select committee report which was full of issues ‘to be explored’. Not a helpful thing to bring to mind, when what is needed is action not ‘further exploration’.

C28: p.24 A better section. Note, this is the only page in the entire 37 page document which uses the term “trans children”. The text is fine, though a bit vague on what are the very many problems and what are the issues that Stonewall plans to help tackle.

It needs to talk more about the crunch issues ‘right to wear uniform, right to use toilet, right to be addressed by preferred name and pronoun (without a deed pole or Dr’s permission), right to change gender marker on record, right to be safe, right not to be persecuted, responsibility of school to protect from bullying, responsibility of school to help other pupils understand, right to socially transition at any age without medical permission etc etc. The current text is too vague and avoids many key issues.

C29: Again the section blurs the ‘children exploring gender identity’ and transgender children topic. The adults section does not devote space to adults questioning gender identity – it focuses on what are the needs of trans adults. The children’s section should similarly prioritise the needs of transgender children (many things that will help transgender children in schools will also help gender questioning children, but to merge the two adds to the confusion around whether transgender children exist (ie some people want to put all children into the gender questioning category, as if you have to be an adult to be actually transgender – pretending they don’t exist is deeply unhelpful for addressing the needs of transgender children.

C30: p. 26. Great to hear about the #Stonewall education research project. Would be good to see commitment that this will mean understanding the experience of transgender children of all ages, in both primary and secondary school. It will be unlikely that this research will be appropriate to directly speak with primary school children like my daughter, in which case this research will explicitly need to reach out to and include the parents of transgender children, otherwise an important voice will be lost.

C31: The Stonewall training will sit alongside existing stonewall LGB trainings. I imagine (I do not have expertise here) that most LGB trainings are aimed at secondary school age? For transgender children, unlike LGB children, there are transgender children in schools and pre-schools from as young as age 3. How is the Stonewall education programme being adapted to ensure transgender components support primary age transgender children? Many schools are in denial about having young transgender children (until they have a young child transition, at which point they go into panic and melt down).

C32: Unless you have a clear policy on the existence of transgender young children, you will not be able to support the schools that are unconvinced of the existence of transgender young children.

C33: p.26 Great to see this commitment to work with #Mermaids. I’m a member of Mermaids and fellow parents who I have met through Mermaids have been the only support at all we have had on this very lonely journey as a parent of a transgender child. We need organisations like Mermaids and Stonewall to work together to help our transgender children.

Thank you for taking the time to read this submission.

We look forward to hearing more about the consultation.